Coaching the Doctor! The Hero's Genome

Learn all about genomic testing and its ability to personalize healthcare in this latest episode of Since You Put It That Way. After some discussion of genomics and their role in establishing and maintaining well-being and removing shame about aspects of health that may be genomically-based, such as weight gain or slow exercise recovery, Michelle Mandala Nigh coaches Mary Louder, DO in how to improve her cardiovascular fitness using lifestyle medicine. Enjoy this view of how genomic medicine looks in practice!

Intro for "Since you put it that way" podcast.

Outro for "Since you put it that way" podcast

Transcript

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 0:20

Hi, Dr. Mary Louder here, and welcome to another episode of Since You Put It That Way. Today, I'm in conversation with our health and wellness coach Michelle, and Michelle and I are going through the Hero's Genome, which is our signature program for testing you relative to your genomics and how that influences your health. And then we take it a step further, where she gets to coach the doctor--that's me--on a certain area of my genome that I could improve on in a lifestyle way, according to how I could have some better fitness. So stay tuned for that episode. That's coming up next, I'm in conversation with Michelle regarding the Hero's Genome.

Mary Louder: 1:01

Well, good afternoon, good evening, good morning, wherever you are listening or viewing from. Michelle and I are together. And we have an announcement, we're going to be in cahoots, it looks like with the podcasting, which will be great. I would say send bail money, we'll give you the P.O. Box where it should go, right? And just, we're really being disruptors to a system that needs disrupting,

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 1:30

Gently, but absolutely disrupting.

Mary Louder: 1:34

Exactly. And in a positive force, of course, but hopefully with a little bit of humor and fun along the way. And then we you know, learn and talk and kind of go together. So that should be fun. Yes. So on our episode today, of Since You Put It That Way--and remember, it's the podcast that makes you stop, pause and think,"hmm, since you put it that way"--we're going to talk about genomics, we're talking about the hero's journey, and the Hero's Genome, which is our signature program for looking at your genomics, the blueprint for your health, and then how coaching comes along inside of that to help you be the hero of your own health journey. And I know I've put a couple messages out there about health coaching, one has been a little bit of a public service announcement in a podcast, another one's been more focused on it. So in that podcast was called The Good, the Bad, the Ugly, this is the good part of coaching, how can coaching really enhance a medical appointment, the work of a physician, not that it's about me, because it's actually not, it's about the patient. And so how can coaching really round out all those things that are necessary for the patient to succeed? So before we dive into the, the genome, and give you some data, Michelle, why don't you define for us, if you will, health coaching? And what makes you excited about working together? I hope there's something, you know. And why this, you know, really seemed to be the right fit for you as well.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 3:22

Oh, awesome. Yes, thank you, Mary. So coaching, as Mary has said, can, it can take a lot of different forms, and there's there are certain steps people have to take to become a certified health coach. I look at coaching, I've looked at definitions from different training programs from different websites, and for me, to be a health coach means that they partner with you to help you flourish, they support you in flourishing. And the word flourish comes from positive psychology. It means going beyond just surviving. Coaches are trained in behavior change theories, motivational strategies, positive psychology and health education, health promotion theories, and the coach will help you to activate your internal strengths and create processes, attainable action steps, and self-accountability that align with your values and a sustainable vision of well-being. So coaching is about bolstering the how. How you get to your vision that you may have laid out with your primary provider. So, the coach isn't creating that vision for you. You're creating that vision with your provider and the coach is helping you get--create the steps to get there. And ideally, a coach has received training and certification from a governing body like the National Board of Certified Health and Wellness Coaches. And so what excites me about Cairn Medical and working with with you, Mary, with you, Dr. Louder, is that you have, you have over 30 years of experience, you have a very clear vision of what hasn't been working in healthcare, and how to make health care more user-friendly environment for patients, for people that are interested in wellness, not not sick care. And much of medicine and mental health has all been about disorders and pathology, and not about creating wellness. So I think that coaching has become more of a, it's come out there in the world, because of our healthcare systems, that care system, you know, that often limits providers to 15 minutes with a patient or very limited time. And so, a patient may think, Okay, I have, I have diabetes, I have a heart condition. And the doctor is telling me I need to do something about it. And I don't know what. And I think that's why coaching has become a needed step. But also it can be a bit of a Wild West where people have their own theories of how to create wellness in people. So what Cairn medical is, gently disrupting is--

Mary Louder: 7:02

Can't be too gentle.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 7:06

Gentle can be a spectrum. Generally disrupting this idea of--there's, there's, that there's only so much we can do. That you're on your own. That there's--that there aren't answers and with--with your approach of the genome, and the and supplements and mind, body, heart, soul all being a part of the healing process, and the body has can heal itself when it's given the right tools and the right environment in which to thrive, in which to flourish.

Mary Louder: 7:55

Exactly.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 7:56

Yes. Then this is I mean, that's, that's so exciting, because it's this is where--this is where hope for people that has been lost for a long time can turn into action steps and attaining health.

Mary Louder: 8:11

Exactly. Exactly. That's just so well said and put together. Thank you. That's why I hired you, because you got this. And so yeah, so it's interesting, because a couple of things you said, really, to explain why do physicians focus on diagnosis? That's how they get paid. Yeah. So for example, if you are a Medicare patient, and you have diabetes, we literally have probably 30 codes that depict aspects of diabetes. So we have to pick the right code as the primary code. And then we have to pick up all the subset codes to that. Meaning, without hypertension, with or without eye changes, with or without liver changes, with or without kidney changes, with or without neurologic changes, with or without chronic anemia, with or without heart failure, with or with, you know, on it goes. And we literally are coding for pennies, coding for dollars. Because if I leave some of those off, I get less reimbursement because I've--I presented a patient who could be exquisitely complex, but because I haven't reported it as such, I leave money, as it were, on the table. For the complexity wherewith I've been dealing with the patient, which makes no sense to me whatsoever. It doesn't drive me to do better care if I can bill and code better. I did not go to school for billing and coding, it's something I have to continually attend courses on and continue to self-educate and continue to update myself. That's not why I went to school. I went to school to be able to diagnose, treat, manage, care for patients who happen to have diabetes.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 10:14

Yeah, it's such a--it's waste of time and resources and--and your energy

Mary Louder: 10:21

It is. And so then by the time we get to, now I have to come up with a lifestyle program for this person, I'm exhausted. Okay, well we send them to a diabetic educator. What, the insurance needs prior authorization? You're kidding me. I mean, we know the guy--the person's diabetic. We know your--the insurance covers that, but now I have to write a letter that covers that, even after I've given you 12 codes that prove that? You're kidding me, right? I mean, this is not an exaggeration. This is not.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 10:54

It's insanity.

Mary Louder: 10:55

It is, and so I no longer operate in that system. Because you're right, it defined insanity. And it kept disrupting me and my ability to serve my patient. And I was just exhausted just trying to do all of that stuff, let alone--because I do focus on lifestyle. And because I do focus on root causes, and I focus on the mind-body approach that requires extra time, conversation, connecting with, listening to the patient. I just couldn't do it all. And I just didn't fit that mold. I don't think I ever fit that mold. But back in the day, back in the olden days, not quite horse-and-buggy, but back. You know, when I started medicine, 30 years ago, I could function in that world, because the coding was much more simple. And the reimbursement was much more simple. But it's just not the case anymore.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 12:00

Yeah.

Mary Louder: 12:02

And so--

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 12:02

Who--

Mary Louder: 12:03

Go ahead.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 12:04

I was gonna say, and who thrives in that system? Who can flourish? Nobody. Nobody.

Mary Louder: 12:08

Yeah, there is somebody.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 12:11

Oh, yeah. Insurance comapnies.

Mary Louder: 12:15

Medical-industrial complex, and the insurance companies that continue to make huge profits, billions of dollars of profits in a quarter. Through 67% of their profits, supported by taxpayer dollars in the Medicare world. That's the Medicare Advantage plans. They're now owned by the top five or six or seven insurance companies. So that needs to be dismantled. Talk about disruption, what would I do? I would, if I were president, I'd blow that system up. Now, how much? Well, to the extent that you could still put the Medicare system in place, universal health care for all, and you've got a structure. And people say, well, it costs too much money. Really? $4.7 trillion was spent on health care. 4.7 trillion. These companies are making $37 billion in profit a quarter.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 13:10

That's unfathomable.

Mary Louder: 13:10

Who's, who's, who's who's saying this is too expensive? So, it's not, if you really turn that into dollars

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 13:16

Right? Yeah. caring for an individual. It wouldn't be. And so that's, you know, no, it's not a separate issue. That is the issue. And that is one of the biggest issues in health care. So what I did in leaving that entire system is decided what were the

Mary Louder: 13:32

So that's, yeah. And then the other thing with things I needed to do to really help a patient? Quit guessing, that would be helpful. Il explain what that means, doesn't mean I'm a bad doctor, it means there a bit more clarity. All we strive--try the veal, you know, it means this will just keep going here. Really, truly the mind-body approach, mind-body-spirit approach, and finding that equanimity within all of that so we can live content, peaceful lives that we're really due and we deserve. And we can live to the fullest and enjoy life with the best health that we can get. And we can restore health at any point and health restored can look at a variety of things. Does that mean you're going to be the athlete you were at 20? Maybe not, not if certain things happened. But what about on the inside? Your connection to yourself, your connection with your soul and your spirit? And that contented living, that joyous living? You know, when really at the end of the day when people write what they really really want it's peace and contentment. that, so you've got, you know, figuring out, less guessing, the mind-body approach and the time spent with the patient to really give them the tools to do and to change and to grow and to transform.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 15:03

Yes, yes.

Mary Louder: 15:05

So you know, that's why when we call it Cairn Medicine, and the stack of rocks, the stack of rocks for--in the Cairn is the guideposts for the way, your friend along the path, the, the, you know, the stack saying, this is the way, you're on the right path? Well, we're there with you. Then the Hero's Genome, which is our signature genomic program, is creating awareness, education, abilities, and data for you to be the hero of your own health journey. And then with the mind-body-spirit approach, or self-care or Self-Compassion and Connection, and our health coaching. So all the tools are there for patients to come in, and to transform. To gain lifestyle, to gain health, to get well, to feel well, and to be well no matter where they start on the continuum. And that's the goal. And so, you know, today, what we want to talk about is the genomics, and the hero's genome program. And I've done a podcast on genomics, I think I've done cardio genomics, we have a program, if you go over to the Cairn Wellness Community, which everybody can sign up for, for no cost through our website, you can then take the Hero's Genome by purchasing the test, or you come in through our Cairn Medical program, and you get the test as the part of your registration fee. So the genomic tests and using the genome is the blueprint for your health. And it allows me to not guess, yeah, I think there's problems with detoxification, because you tend to be sluggish, and you tend to be tired. And you tend to this, and you tend to that, and when we take medicines, they don't quite work. And then you have a lot of side effects. Sure, that can functionally point to areas of detoxification. But what areas? Or, yeah, if I overdo it, when I work out, I always ache for days. Well, okay, we can figure out why that is based upon the type of activity that you need to do that's best for you. And also, if you have triggers that take you into more inflammation or oxidative stress. And we can find that in your gene patterns. And so with the the genome, and I've done it, we're going to look at mine, so I'm gonna be a little bit revealing here. Don't worry, we'll all keep our clothes on, here's not that revealing means so. And Michelle, you don't have to show yours, but you went through that process of me going through the test. And so it will be interesting to get your feedback. And even maybe share a little bit about your son, who we gave some insight to and how that transformed some of the things he was thinking about. But I'm going to share my screen, and then go right to the genome test. Here. And so when you do a test with us, this is what it begins to look at. It's the personal genetic story of Mary Louder. Once upon a time, when I was very, very young, on the planet very, very far away. Wait, no, that's not how it goes. But at a pathway very, very far away, we begin to look at this lab that we use, is I--I'll stop with the jokes now, hopefully. Maybe not. But this this, this test is called 3x4. So we look at the three main pathways. And then one aspect of is identifying what the pathway is, and then three ways to have impact. So that's the four steps, three pathways, and then four steps. So for me, looking at results, methylation, inflammation, and collagen in joints. Those are the main areas. Now in this test, what it then does, it brings up lifestyle things. Dietary interventions that I can do, exercise or activity interventions, and then supplements. Now, does that mean I'm on every single supplement that this test lists? No. Why? Well, because this test is not diagnostic. It's only a blueprint. So you know, when you're building your house, the blueprints great, you think it's going to look really good until you get what? A builder, person who does the subcontracting and the trim and the siding and the insulation, right? That's the quality of the build. So in this test, the quality of the build is the understanding of what this test is showing and the quality of the understanding of how to do next-step testing to investigate based upon what the patient's symptoms are, their history, their current diagnosis, and current needs. So that's how you go about this. Then as we go down through the test, we see that there's a number of genes that I really have no impact on. This, this, I think this test does like, I believe about 300 genes, huge amount of genes. Now, the thing is, some people do genomic testing, and they do one, two, three, or four genes. And then they try and put something together with that. Well, the genes, and this influence on our system, is in the world called epigenetics, meaning how our genes interact, and how our genes are influenced by our environment. Different than a mutation. A mutation is where in the DNA, there's a section missing, there's a duplication of that section, or there's an insertion of another part of this--the DNA. Another part of code. Any one of those three things causes enough disruption that they call it a mutation. None of what we're looking at here is a mutation. Now, you might say I'm a mutation, but I would disagree. And I digress. So moving right along. So then based upon the methylation, excuse me, inflammation and collagen in joints, the lab then says okay, those pathways then come in these categories, cellular level, which is way upstream or way up-river, okay? Systems: cardiovascular, nervous, orthopedic, bones, mood, things like that, and then cardiovascular here as well, energy, activity, and our nutrients. So this is just how this is put together. And in this situation, the more purple means higher influence. So while there were three areas that came up, if I look at this and put the story together, I see that I have issues with inflammation, methylation. I have pro-inflammatory fat, my exercise respons is affected, my ability to make fat is affected, energy expenditure, weight gain, and weight loss resistance. Well, look at how many are here in the energy that are in the purple. Okay, so then what I do is I turn around I ask the patient in this case, I know myself, Well what happens here? Well, I know that I have a family history on my dad's side of all of the women putting weight on at menopause very quickly, of all of the women having, putting on weight without eating a whole lot. And my dad had five sisters and every single one of them struggled with weight issues. Every single one. Now what do I mean? They put weight on fast. What do I do? Put weight on fast. What do I do? Take weight off slow. So I'm your gal for, you know, famine and, and floods. I'll stay around for a long time. And I'm there for the, you know, long-term existence and I'll have a lot, you know, I won't wither away to nothing. The other thing though, with this being pro-inflammatory what that kicks in, and things to look for there, is over-exercising. And that's, this has to do and goes into areas around cortisol, stress response, if I live in fight-or-flight, fawn or freeze, and I do a lot of exercising and push myself every day, push, push, push and drink a lot of coffee and don't get enough sleep, I'm immediately in the pro-inflammatory phase. Anybody would be, but me especially, when we look at how my genes literally come together and make a story. So I have to watch out how much I exercise. Now I had to watch that as a, as a, as a youngster and I never knew why. But I would know if I really push it, I would have a couple of days, like two days later, I would just be wiped out.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 24:56

And you were an athlete, right?

Mary Louder: 24:58

Yeah, I still am, but yes. Different kind now, but yes, yeah. Oh, yeah. I lettered in 12 sports in high school, and started varsity basketball for four years. Yeah, I was gonna play at the collegiate level. So yeah. And also then, all summers we just rode our bike everywhere and swam all day and things like that. So yeah, very active. But it--when I would go into training and start training, it was hard. Distance running would just kill me because you would push really hard. And then like the next day or two, you had to go do it again. And I just, I didn't have it in me.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 25:42

Yeah.

Mary Louder: 25:43

And so down here in recovery and injury, you can see why. Again, now this test is not diagnostic, this says, hey, look at the trends. What do we need to know?

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 25:55

Mary, would you say, too, that with the pro-inflammatory, fat, like, would that be influenced by stress?

Mary Louder: 26:05

Totally. Yeah. And honestly, personally, in my life, I put on my most weight postmenopausally, post menopause with stress regarding my parents' health, their, their passing, and stress around the pandemic, all of the above. Because I really didn't hit menopause till mid-50s. I was a little later.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 26:31

Okay.

Mary Louder: 26:34

And a lot of my aunts on my dad's side had hysterectomies. So there was reasons they had hysterectomies, right? Which would be probably all of this, and probably inflammation and methylation issues that in fact, can influence hormones. And so there would be, you know, we would use terms like an estrogen dominance or an estrogen excess, things you would see, would be maybe, fibroids in the uterus, maybe cysts in the ovaries, irregular menses, heavy menses, adenomyosis where the uterus is more stiff. So it would be, you know, so you then take this picture, take the history, because this kind of becomes footnotes. Where do I need to research now that I've heard the patient's story and I see their blueprint? How do I go back and re-repair or build differently? So, and then the other thing with, interesting like with choline and folate, when we think of methylation, we always think B vitamins, B6, B Complex, the B vitamins must be methylated, meaning they're taken down one step and already in an active form for the body to use. Lovely, if you give me a bunch of B vitamins, and to treat my methylation defect, which is the MTHFR gene that everybody looks at and say, Oh, you have the MTHFR. Therefore this and this, and this is going to happen. One gene, one SNP, one of these aspects of that gene does not a disease make because remember, it's not a mutation. But when you're looking at methylation with that instance, if you give me a lot of B vitamins, you actually make my methylation worse, because I've studied and tested through my methylation path--pathway to know that I do have adequate B vitamins, but one of the main cofactors of that is choline. And here it shows I have the propensity for low choline levels, which I would have to test. Again, not diagnostic, but testing for. And so in that situation, don't give me B vitamins to further shut my methylation down, support me with choline, zinc, magnesium, the other components of that pathway. Hmm. So kind of fascinating, very much, very much. So we're gonna skip down to some things that are just really nitty-gritty for coaching. Okay, so I'm going to slide down here. Activity and the weight management. Energy and the weight management. You mentioned the pro-inflammatory fat. And this is how this test reports out for me. We saw all the purple higher up in those in those systems. And here it is here. Pro-inflammatory fat, which becomes, ready for this? This becomes a hormone. An endocrine gland, your fat, my fa, that's pro-inflammatory, is an endocrine organ. Influencing the body. A hormone, which is in the endocrine system, is a fat-soluble molecule that goes from one point to the other and takes a message. I mean, I'm so talkative even my fat cells are talkative. Seriously. It's just, thanks. Thanks. But when I saw this, I feel like Oprah here, since she's come out on the Ozempic bandwagon, I feel like Oprah. Oh, finally, the shame has been removed. But truly, I did feel that the shame was removed, because I would have people say, I don't see how you could carry any extra weight with as much as you do and as little as you eat, and as healthy as you eat, moreover. I mean, my mom, I call them school lunches, and she did bring us school lunches, but she was very nutrition, nutrition oriented. And we had whole wheat bread and tuna fish, and cottage cheese and, and celery and carrots. And, you know, it was good stuff, you know? And that was what I was really, you know, if I eat that way now, and exercise in a moderate fashion, I do and feel my best. So we had that dialed in at a certain age in my life. So it was pretty good. So if we look down here sitting in the chair, my resting metabolism is slower than optimal. Thanks. And my fat cells release less fuel efficiently when I exercise. Thanks. So if I stay in the slow and low mode, I still don't release very much. And this is how hard it is for me to lose weight. Thanks. But hey, I have a good appetite, and I--it takes me longer to feel full. Thanks. So this is like, just, here. But let's take that and, you know, so and I think the other thing that bears, bears explaining is one gene comes from Mom, one gene comes from Dad. And when they come together we get you know our genome and so we get a mix so even my sister, who's obviously in the same family unless we're told otherwise right? Hers would be different even though we're first degree relatives. The genes would come together slightly differently for the these expressions. So let's take this energy overview and then let's drop down to activity overview and then let's look at how would you coach me through this. You know, in our current coaching practice or theory or paradigm. So in our activity overview my training response I have a good response to training. I'm so glad. I'm so glad. You're likely prone to soft tissue injuries. Interestingly, not so much as a kid. Now more without as much estrogen in my system because the tendons and ligaments change without estrogen. Fascinating. Make--it may take longer for me to to respond to endurance training. Yes, I could have told you that when I ran the two mile race. I could have told you that. In fact, I did tell my track coach this this past summer and she just laughed. I--my track--well, let me say that my track coach from way back when. We still get together. I forgot to tell you, I'm now on the track team. No. We're not doing distance. But we I told her I said it was never in my genes to be a good two mile runner. She goes yeah, I know. So shout out to Mrs. Morris. So and my power capacity will respond moderately. Okay. This I love, likely need daily support to recover from exercise. A little more rest is good for the soul and good for the recovery. Yes. I agree. So looking at these two, what would you say? What would be your first blush as a coach to say, you know, pretend it's not me. Pretend I'm the average patient, pretend I'm the average client, you know,what would you say?

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 35:05

I would first start out with what stands out to you, in your report the most. Like, what's most either startling or important?

Mary Louder: 35:20

In this, if we're focusing on this topic here of the entire report these two aspects--two things, I'm relieved to see it, because I have felt the struggle my whole life, and I felt the shame of the struggle my whole life, if I were absolutely candid.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 35:48

Yeah, the report sort of takes some of the emotionality you've been feeling. Like the personal responsibility, it, it's, it lightens that load, gives you more of an understanding of why things may be happening as they are.

Mary Louder: 36:07

Right.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 36:08

Yeah. So then I would wonder what, what area for you is the most important to work on in coaching? First?

Mary Louder: 36:24

I think cardiovascular and I would say, ways to continue to increase energy expenditure throughout the day.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 36:43

Okay. And by cardiovascular, do you mean improving your cardiovascular health and your ability to do cardiovascular exercise?

Mary Louder: 36:57

Yes.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 36:58

Okay. What, what are you already doing right now?

Mary Louder: 37:03

Yeah. Usually walking a mile a day with my doggo, Lucy. And then once to two times a week doing the elliptical. It used to be bike riding, which was like three to four times a week in the summer, but now transitioning back into the winter, I bring that back indoors.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 37:23

Okay.

Mary Louder: 37:27

I mean, I would, in my perfect world, if I could exercise five to six times a week, but I don't think I can with that recovery. The time to recover, it just takes a little bit longer.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 37:47

When do you notice the recovery being more of an issue? Say, is it after the elliptical? Or is it after some--doing something a little less taxing perhaps, like walking? Does recovery make--what is the spectrum there?

Mary Louder: 38:12

Yeah. Walking, not really. No big deal. Okay, so it's going to be the elliptical or, it--yeah. Yeah, I would say it's the elliptical. If I go longer than 30 to 40 minutes. You know, so I monitor my heart rate. I'm anywhere between the 60 and 70% zone of my maximum heart rate. Which is pretty solid, I'm able to do that.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 38:45

Is that considered zone 2? 60-80%?

Mary Louder: 38:50

Everything reports out to me at zone one, and I don't know where, pardon me, I don't know where the hell zone two is, but I think I'm in zone two.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 38:58

Zone two is when you are you're breathing hard enough that conversation would be difficult.

Mary Louder: 39:04

Mm hmm. I'm right there or just slightly below it.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 39:09

Okay. Okay, so then you're doing zone two, or where it's harder to breathe and talk. You're doing that for, did you say 30 to 40 minutes?

Mary Louder: 39:22

I would say I can do that for 25 minutes. If I were to change it to 30 I have to go in and out of that zone.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 39:29

Okay. And that's twice a week. Right, and walking is how many times a week? Mmm

Mary Louder: 39:39

hmm. Probably three, it's on alternate days, I would say.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 39:43

Okay. And from what you said earlier, you're wanting to get more cardio during the day, more times a day. Increase your movement, perhaps?

Mary Louder: 39:59

Maybe movement, but I think just setting the time aside and making sure the time's carved out.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 40:10

Okay. On a daily basis, you would like to be doing some sort of movement.

Mary Louder: 40:17

Yep.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 40:17

Okay, and what--when you're doing, you said about a mile, of walking, how long is that taking right now?

Mary Louder: 40:30

21 minutes?

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 40:32

Okay.

Mary Louder: 40:33

22, maybe 23? depends. Depends on Lucy. I'm gonna blame Lucy on this. She's got a sniff patrol. So what can I do?

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 40:44

This is true. This is true. The struggle is real with with dogs. An awesome struggle.

Mary Louder: 40:51

It's all Lucy's fault. Okay, I'm done here I see our work here is done.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 40:56

Your genome and Lucy.

Mary Louder: 40:57

Exactly.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 41:01

So are--at this point, would it--which sounds what sounds appealing, does it sounds appealing to do that mile more times a week?

Mary Louder: 41:17

Yes.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 41:18

Than you're doing currently, okay. What what are you seeing--what would need to happen for you to be able to do that on a daily basis?

Mary Louder: 41:26

I think just put it in the schedule, and literally set the time to do it. With the changing weather, and soon it will get light again, right? From where we are, from when this podcast is recorded, we're soon approaching the solstice here, the winter solstice. I would say if I got up in the morning, had a quick cup of coffee and head out the door with Lucy, because she, Lucy sleeps in. She's a sleeper-inner. So we could get a mile before we--before she got fed in the morning.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 42:06

Okay, what time would that be?

Mary Louder: About 6:15, 6: 42:09

30.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 42:12

All right. So in order for you to walk daily, for a mile, with Lucy, you'd have to put it in your calendar, schedule the same time every day. Are there any potential barriers you see to, to taking this step?

Mary Louder: 42:34

No, because I don't have to be out of the door at

the very earliest until 7: 42:37

45, 8:00. And so--that's at the earliest, and the days where I do my work from home, I'm home.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 42:49

Okay.

Mary Louder: 42:50

I think it's a matter of--I think it's a matter of doing it, to be super candid.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 42:58

And do you have, right now before it's getting light out, it's still fairly dark out at six--do you have what you need light-wise?

Mary Louder: 43:15

I'm always, like, I'm the gal with gear.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 43:17

You're the gear gal.

Mary Louder: 43:20

If it's something that I can get gear, I got it. Yes, yes. Yes, I can accommodate that.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 43:30

And is there accountability you can get, outside of me, to do this every day?

Mary Louder: 43:40

I think so. I think Andy, my husband, would be willing to make sure I get my carcass out the door.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 43:47

Okay. All right, awesome. So then on a zero through 10 scale with zero being not at all confident and ten being super duper confident. Where are you with this plan right now?

Mary Louder: 44:03

Probably a 8.257.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 44:06

Sweet. Okay, nice. Then after we, we meet today, what do you need to do to make sure this happens tomorrow morning.

Mary Louder: 44:23

Tell Andy. That's it.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 44:26

That's it.

Mary Louder: 44:27

Yeah, cuz he usually takes her out in the morning. So he'll be, he'll be a sleeper-inner instead.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 44:31

Okay.

Mary Louder: 44:33

No, I'm sure he'll be up, but just a matter of that, it's a ma--and then, because we get up, we pretty much get up at the same time, together. So yeah.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 44:47

Super. So then what do you think is going to be a benefit of doing this every day? Doing the mile walk, and right away in the morning, when you get up with Lucy? What--what do you--what outcome do you see for yourself?

Mary Louder: 45:04

That's a great question. I think I see multiple outcomes. Honestly, I see clear head, and having a real grounded activity right from the get-go. Check, there's a sense of accomplishment. Check, I've done something to get my heart rate up, and it feels good. The blood is pumping. Feels good. I wonder, and I think we should just put this out there not to be an over-achiever. But I wonder if that will actually promote me doing more workouts later in the day? Having maybe a little more energy?

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 45:41

Yeah, yes. Definitely, from what you're describing, you're foreseeing that you're, you're, you're going to be thinking more clearly, you're going to have more energy right away in the morning, it's going to likely improve the process of your day, which means that you're going to be likely more in the mood, more motivated to be--to make this this good feeling just kind of keep rippling out. So I'm hearing a lot of positive, positive outlook about taking this step. Okay. Does that feel like enough of a step to take in this next week?

Mary Louder: 46:26

Oh, yeah, I think so.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 46:28

Okay. So in your own words, let me know exactly what, what your takeaways are from this and what you're going to be doing in this next week.

Mary Louder: 46:43

So I'm committing to walking a mile every day, first thing in the morning. Getting up, quick cup coffee, maybe a few sips, head out the door, get the walk in, put on the gear. So, and use all the things and put Lucy and her best to be highlighted as well. Yeah, so we'll be you know, walking together. And, and she's interestingly, it'll be fun, fun to know how interested she is in that sniff patrol at that time. Hmm, maybe, it may be we'll keep our eye on task a little bit more too, so.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 47:28

Possibly. Yeah, another benefit, and you could have a happier pup all day long. Yeah. Excellent. Okay, so you've got your goal, you got your action steps, you feel confident, and you're looking to see how this impacts both your body and your mind and your spirit.

Mary Louder: 47:47

Yes.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 47:48

So that sounds wonderful.

Mary Louder: 47:50

Okay. All right. Excellent. Thank you. Okay. Well, we'll stop the share on that one. That was super helpful.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 48:02

Oh, good. Yeah. It's the--

Mary Louder: 48:05

It's a good thought.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 48:07

And it all came--what the cool thing about coaching is that, that all came from you. You know, that's, that's your plan, what will work with what you know right now to be your world. I don't, I don't know your world intimately the way you do. So you see your barriers, you see what will help you. And so the coach, ideally, will bring all that into the creation of the plan for you.

Mary Louder: 48:35

Cool. Okay.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 48:37

Yeah.

Mary Louder: 48:37

It's great, thank you.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 48:39

You're welcome.

Mary Louder: 48:40

I feel good. It feels doable. I mean, when we break it down like that, and just, you know, and I think one of the thing I just kept hearing, when you were talking to me was, there really isn't that many barriers, there really aren't any barriers. This actually feels kind of easy. You know, and that's not what it feels like when I think about it all by myself and don't really break it down. It's like, oh, my gosh, and you didn't do it again. Or oh, you only did this much.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 49:05

Yeah.

Mary Louder: 49:05

That's where I tend to go, to be honest.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 49:08

Yeah, I think you're not alone in. I think we all do that, we see things as this giant, just vague thing that I want to accomplish. And, you know, life really isn't huge things that we accomplish. Life is a series of small choices that we make all day long. And so focusing in on what choices would enhance your day and enhance your well-being is where you can make those changes. And it's also important to remember that part of making change is that you're not going to be 100%, most likely. You're, we humans don't operate that way. So if you there is a day that you get off-path, that's not a reason to stop completely. That's a reason to say okay, this is part of the process and look to see what you've done so far to, to move toward your goal and then just get back on. There doesn't need to be shame, there doesn't have to be a sense of failure, it's just that's what we do as humans.

Mary Louder: 50:20

Yeah. Okay. Well, I will report back.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 50:24

Okay. Looking forward to it.

Mary Louder: 50:26

Good. Excellent. All right. Well, let's turn the tables. Okay. Now it's getting fun, no. So, share with us, share with me as we're, you know, talking here about how you felt. Things you thought about going up to your genomic testing in terms of getting the results back, going through the webinars, and then what, you know how the results impacted you when you got them. For the Hero's Genome.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 51:06

Thank you. I--so it was a really intriguing process. The--because, yes, I watched the webinars, and they gave me a sense of understanding what the process was going to be about, why it's important, how it can fit into my total health picture. And my son also did the test, so it was fun to do this together, and we're both very excited to get the results back. So I'm a plant-based person. And I, that's how I cook in our home as well. My son is a extreme athlete. And so health has always been a topic of discussion for us. So he's, he's been interested because he's gone back and forth with plant-based and not. And he was, so he was like, Okay, I know, this is going to decide how we're going to eat, how we're going to do everything. And so when we got the results back for me, it was--it lit up a lot of like, Ah, okay, that makes sense. Because as I had shared with Mary, I've been, I've been recovering from this injury I've had when I tried to do a half-marathon earlier this year, and I only got three weeks into the training before I, I got the injury. And if you look at my genome report, that is a part of it. I also have struggles with recovery. And I know every time I try to do something intense, I get injured. And so now that makes sense. So since the report, I've really made shifts to how I exercise and how I'm trying to create much more sustainable physical health because of the report. I also have increased my omega threes, because of the inflammation tendencies that I saw, that you talked about in--from my report, min fatty acids. So I--it also helped me to know because I the satiety thing for me is came up in my report because I don't, I can eat, I can eat, I can eat, and I don't get full, and that was revealed in my report too. So that gave me some, there's a lot of peace of mind, I think, that--that came from this. And I continually go back to the report just to keep getting better understanding of how I can fine-tune my life, my--and how I eat, my son has, it was revealed in his genome that he, he has this propensity for--the athleticism that he shows was very much a part of his report. And so then, that he's not going to be--he doesn't have the the holding onto fat, the way that you and I do yeah, that we struggle with so.

Mary Louder: 54:29

We have it as a hobby. Yeah.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 54:32

Right. And gosh, that's frustrating on some levels knowing that it is, it's just an easier thing for him and he can't understand to like when I tell him like I just I eat because it tastes good. I don't eat because I'm full. Because I'm not full. And he's like, ah, I'm so skinny. Because for him, he gets full. But he has, he has with more vigor started eating more, more meat, more protein. He doesn't have to worry about the fat intake, his body handles that really well. Yeah, and I'm--recovery was another big part of it. So, for both him with his athleticism and me just in my, I need to make sure I'm getting--my basic routine has to be so much about caring for myself so that I do recover from anything I do. So yeah, it's been super intriguing.

Mary Louder: 55:31

Yeah. It's what was really fun is when I do these tests and share the results with folks that I've never met before. And I write, and, as you can see, there's a lot of pictures in the reports. And so I tell the story with them. And I talk about how our genes tell the story of us. And it's 100% of the time, and that's not an exaggeration, I get done with people and they go, how do you know me? I said, well, because your story is right there. And so, so it is just always been affirming to folks, that, you know, this is them on paper and the blueprint. And again, what it doesn't do is it doesn't diagnose, it's not going to say, well, in 20 years, you're gonna have Alzheimer's, it's not gonna say you're gonna get Parkinson's it's not going to say you have cancer, it's not going to say you're autistic, it's not going to say you're depressed, it's not going to say you're going to have a heart attack. It's not going to do any of those things. It is when you, because when you look at a blueprint of something, you're not saying--you're saying, wow, the potential is there to build a really cool house, if we're looking at that from a home standpoint. But you don't know the end product until all the ingredients and all the supplies and all the builders have done their work.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 57:00

Yeah, yeah.

Mary Louder: 57:01

Right? So you get to be your general contractor, you get to be the hero of your journey into your genomic way and into really your--the blueprint for your health. And how it took the guessing out for me is, I need to do keto, I need to do this. I need to do that. I'm like, we don't know for sure. You know, and so I had one lady that just insisted, she goes, I do keto, but every time we do keto, I get sick, but I know that's what I need to do. I'm like, Okay, well, you know, let's look. So we look and it just says in there, it's advised for you to not do keto. I said, Could we be any plainer? And she's like, okay, I guess I won't do keto. Okay. So, you know, and I'm not saying that to make fun of anybody. It's just like, really, you know, there's so much information out there that we have to glean through. Not just only as laypeople and things we see on the internet, and, you know, Dr. Google, but as physicians, you know, look at lifestyle medicine. Oh, everybody should be, you know--you know, and I'm not picking on plant-based, everybody should go plant-based, if they're, have cardiovascular disease, you know, like the Dean Ornish plan, right? The Dean Ornish plan would kill me, because I need to have a certain amount of meat, and a certain amount of, you know, a balance. My protein has to come usually from meat sources, according to my genome. And so it's just fascinating. Now, if I can get some from beans, and I can get some from, you know, all the plants, and that's good. And I'm like really solidly in the Mediterranean. And if you look at where my gene heritage comes from, I'm 97.8%, Bavarian German. They ate plants, but they turned it all into sauerkraut. Right? So it was all fermented. Or they made beverages out of it. The hops, right? So but if you look at you know, a traditional German diet, not the high fat one that you know that but if you look at just the real, it's, it's lean meats, it's, it's venison, it's, it's game, it's, you know, pheasant, it's, it's turkey, it's chicken, it's some fish. It's green leafy vegetables, it's root vegetables. It's turnips, it's--kohlrabi's above the ground, but it's, you know, Brussels sprouts. It's a lot of cruciferi. Yeah, cruciferous. I call them if they're plural, cruciferi. So, you know, and so I do my best work in that, too. And that's actually what my genome says. So we begin to look, it's really fun when you kind of look, you know, at the Medical Anthropology of all this and putting this together, it begins to add up and equate to really, what then feels good to eat, what tastes good to eat, you know, what fuels our body in a good way.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 1:00:14

Yeah, I think the thing that's in common with everybody--everyone's genome is different and different things would enhance your life. And the only thing that is really necessary for everybody is real food.

Mary Louder: 1:00:35

Yeah. Right, not the Franken food?

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 1:00:38

Not the Frankenfood. Right. Oh, and I was going to also mention Mary, I think the the cool thing is that with, with what how you lay out the genome with the hero's journey makes, makes it just this, it's a sense of adventure. And I, I really loved that aspect of the, the learning prior to getting my report was how this fits in with, with Joseph Campbell and the hero's journey, and, you know, you've, you've tried things and things haven't worked, and you've fallen back and then and then someone comes along, saying, hey, try this. And then you implement different things that really bring out this kind of more who you are meant to be, that, within you. So that, I think, is very appealing. And it doesn't make it like everybody else's plan, you know, just.

Mary Louder: 1:01:42

Yeah. Thanks. I think that's a really good point. And another thing we don't do with this is we don't hack anything. We're not hacking your genes. We're not hacking longevity. We're not hacking, you know, it's, in my perspective it's a privilege to age. And it's a privilege to be here a long time. Doesn't mean it's easy, doesn't mean that there aren't some ups and downs. But it is a privilege, to live life and to live it to its fullest. And so my goal as a physician, the humanitarian part of me is to say, How can I come alongside and help you do the same? And I think the genome is one of the keys to doing that. So it's really, really a fun way. So, so yeah, I would say, we should check back in as we do another podcast together, we'll just do a catch-in or check-in on this. And keep you posted, as it were, now that I've got the accountability piece there, and, and thank you for coaching me, I appreciate that. And it really made me see there really weren't that many barriers. Really helpful. So.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 1:02:58

Barriers are in the mind.

Mary Louder: 1:03:00

Yeah.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 1:03:00

That's--

Mary Louder: 1:03:02

Yeah.

Michelle Mandala Nigh: 1:03:03

Well, happy walking to you and Lucy.

Mary Louder: 1:03:05

Yes. Well, thank you. Well, happy genomic-ing to you, my friend. Until our next podcast, thank you for being here with us on Since You Put It That Way. And thank you, everybody for listening. We appreciate it, and have a great day today.