The Dr. Mary Louder Show
Tune into The Dr. Mary Louder Show, where Mary Louder, DO and her distinguished guests explore a range of topics, from emerging healthcare challenges to groundbreaking concepts, all designed to ignite transformative "aha" moments and reshape your perspective on wellness. Don't miss an episode—subscribe now to embark on a journey that redefines what you know about health and invites you to think, "Why haven't I seen it this way before?"
The Dr. Mary Louder Show
Menopause, Decoded: Rewriting Your Hormonal Narrative
What if your hot flashes, weight gain, and mood swings weren't just random menopause symptoms but signals your body has been sending for decades? In this groundbreaking conversation with genomic nutritional pioneer Amanda Archibald, we uncover how menopause is not a cliff you suddenly fall off, but the visible tip of an iceberg that's been building throughout your life.
Your DNA contains the blueprint for how your body processes hormones, manages stress, and detoxifies, and when we decode this information, we gain unprecedented power to address menopausal symptoms at their source. Amanda explains why the traditional approach of simply replacing hormones often fails without addressing the underlying genomic patterns that determine how well those hormones function in your unique body. Instead, cellular function, environmental factors, and nutrition form the three foundational elements for addressing menopausal symptoms.
The conversation takes fascinating turns as we explore the estrobolome (the gut bacteria that metabolize estrogen), why serotonin production depends partly on estrogen, and how specific herbs like Mexican oregano can act as "gene whisperers" that help optimize your body's hormonal pathways. We debunk the myth that MTHFR is the only gene that matters and instead look at how multiple genes--more than 22 of them--interact to create your personal hormonal landscape.
Most importantly, we reveal how understanding your genomic patterns can save you from wasting money on supplements and treatments that don't address your specific needs. Whether you're in your 20s preparing for the future, in the midst of perimenopause, or beyond, this conversation offers a revolutionary framework for understanding the decades-long conversation between your genes and hormones.
Ready to discover how your DNA holds the keys to hormonal balance? This episode will transform how you think about menopause and empower you with practical insights to work with your unique genetic makeup rather than against it.
Hi, and welcome to this episode of The Dr Mary But we're going to discuss how menopause doesn't just creep up Louder podcast! I'm your host, Dr. Mary Louder. Today, I'm in conversation with the genomic nutritional pioneer Amanda on us, isn't just a blast, but it literally has been the Archibald, and we're going to be talking about menopause decoded, decades in making. And we're going to talk about gadgets, what your genes have been trying to tell you, hot flashes, cold truths, and the genomic map to midlife metabolism. And we're gimmicks and gotchas. That's going to be a segment where going to talk about the gut-to hormone axis, how functional genomic testing can give us actionable steps and insights in we're going to call out the things and common missteps in how our DNA interacts with our diet, stress, our microbiome, genomic testing and the things that actually work, because events that have occurred in our life, and how when we use personalized testing, we can unlock clarity and confidence that's going to be the gadget. The gimmicks and gotchas, not so much. So we'll understand how menopause is decades long. That doesn't mean you're suffering from it, but how it's the build up to. How the genomic patterns shape our metabolism and our metabolic symptoms associated with menopause, we're going to and real healing, not just for menopause, but really for our learn about what an estrobolome is, and that's the microbiome and how it relates to estrogen and why the MTHFR gene isn't just the whole story. So stay tuned to a great episode that you're going to hear as I'm in conversation with Amanda Archibald, welcome. Well, welcome to our podcast, the Dr Mary Louder podcast show, and today we're diving into something with a very special guest, Amanda Archibald, and Amanda and I have known each other for a number of years. So it's lovely to see you again, Amanda, and it's good to be back in conversation again as well. So--
Amanda Archibald:Always.
Mary Louder:We're diving into something that touches every woman, whether she's 25 or 65 or 45, because that's menopause, and we're not going to talk about it the way that most people do, however. So we're going to be positive disruptors within our system, because this episode is about decoding menopause through the lens of genomics, nutrigenomics, metabolism and the decades that lead up to it. Now that's a different thing. So maybe we could call that the new menopause. Everybody's talking about the new menopause, which I think is the old menopause and the only menopause, but I think we'll get through this. So, Amanda, I want to list you out as a trailblazer in the world of culinary genomics, and someone who I'm honored to longevity. collaborate with here today and explore deeper, more data-rich stories that's really written in our biology. And I love how you decode this. This is going to be a great conversation. So welcome, welcome today.
Amanda Archibald:Good to see you again, my friend.
Mary Louder:It is. So you know, the thing about hormones is that they just don't go haywire in our 40s. And it's a culmination of decades and biochemical and genomic conversations that have occurred in our life over our lifetime, even beginning in our teens. And that's not random. It's not like, Oh, look at me. I had--went off the deep end with my menopause. It's been building for years and decades, and it's built into our genetic blueprint that we can understand. And when we understand it, we can engineer, reverse engineer, to better health. And you know, looking at what a hormone is, it's a chemical messenger, the main molecule is cholesterol. So we, we have to be careful not to attack cholesterol. Cholesterol itself might even be a hormone. I would submit it that is, based upon its characteristics. Yes.
Amanda Archibald:Yes.
Mary Louder:Amanda is nodding, if I could hear--
Amanda Archibald:Yeah, I am nodding, yes, yes, yes.
Mary Louder:So we've already begun disrupting the system here by talking about it this way. And the hormones are produced by the glands. In women, estrogen comes from the ovaries, progesterone comes from the ovaries, testosterone does, cortisol comes from the adrenals. In men, of course, we've got testes, and that's where the testosterone comes from. And, you know, we commonly call them gonads, is how we, you know, refer to them in undifferentiated, in an undifferentiated way. But testosterone for men leads the way, and estrogen for women leads the way. But here's where it gets interesting, because our genes influence how well these hormones are made, activated, and cleared, and how they function, and they're not doing it in a vacuum. So we just assume it's estrogen and progesterone show and there's so many more things, and that's what we're going to go into. Menopause is a mirror. So I want to hear your thoughts on why that might be true, and reflecting back on the genomic activity and life's experiences. So we've talked about this many times, Amanda, you and I over the years in genomics and nutrigenomics, and how we see this. So I'd love for you to share what excites you most about this topic as we begin to dive into it.
Amanda Archibald:The topic of menopause? The topic of genomics?
Mary Louder:Genomics and Menopause, both. Let's see what we how we can bring these together.
Amanda Archibald:Yeah, so I, you mean, genomics itself, this incredible field of the study of the human genome, which, to me, is the study of how we're built, because genes direct how we're built. The, the directors of operation of the human body, I guess you can, you can argue. But when we look at the intersection of genomics and menopause, we, we have a whole different, a much sharper lens on the whole topic. And I think that's what's exciting about it. And just you saying, you know, menopause has been building for decades. It's so true. And I would even say, knowing you, Mary, too, it was been building before we're born. You know, because our our genes reflect our ancestry, but they also reflect the experience of our ancestors, and passing that information down through the cells, right? And that affects our genes and how we show up in life, which is a whole other conversation, but that's what excites me, that our genes are storytellers, and menopause is one of many stories our genes can tell,
Mary Louder:Right. So it didn't, menopause isn't random, is it? It's not like I just had bad luck of the draw, or my hormones went haywire. There's really a coding and decoding of this isn't there?
Amanda Archibald:Absolutely, and that's what we can see. That's what's exciting about the topic. Is you can sort of, we don't want to head it off at the pass, but we can see how to steer--well, men and women, but in this case, we're talking about women--how to steer you up and, up until and through and out the other side, because we can see that in genes and how they're informing the biochemistry and how we can support that. So that's very exciting to me.
Mary Louder:It is, yeah. So if we reframe that every you know, and this is a reframe that I believe every woman needs to hear. It's not a cliff you fall off of, ladies, it's not toes over the edge, here we go, free fall. It's not a surprise attack or a sudden hormonal ambush. It's a continuum, and it's the visible tip of an iceberg that's been really building for decades. And like you said, I believe too, even before we're born, because we do see that, and then what we see in midlife, which is what we hear all the time, the weight gains, sleep disturbances, mood swings, hot flashes, those aren't menopause problems, but they're the accumulation of metabolic and genomic patterns that have just literally built upon one another. So here's where genomics becomes the game changer. And as you mentioned, Amanda, that we can understand certain genes regulate how we metabolize estrogen and how we process cortisol. And s-- and even how we detoxify, which I think is the key point.
Amanda Archibald:That's the key point.
Mary Louder:It really is, because that's--it takes the mystery out of how to prescribe hormones for women, bioidentical hormones for women. And so, talking about these genomic pathways, they can be modulated with food and lifestyle. This is exactly what you do 24/7, 365, and every four years, 366, right?
Amanda Archibald:That too, yes.
Mary Louder:And when you know, the genes, the tests that I use, looks at 22 different genes, just looking at at hormones and hormone balancing, 22 genes, biochemical pathways. So let's dive into that a bit more. And I want--I want to, I want to lean on your expertise here.
Amanda Archibald:Oh, thanks, Mary.
Mary Louder:You're welcome. You're welcome. So--
Amanda Archibald:Alright, first question.
Mary Louder:So let's look at, you know, when you look at and you've got a client in front of you, when they come to you and they're looking at menopause, they're having some hot flashes, night sweats, they're having some insomnia, mood swings. What's, you know, just give me, like, the top three things you're going to look at to tell them, when you're looking at their genes, why that's important, and how that food comes in. And when you're--
Amanda Archibald:Yeah, and I don't know if you--we use a variety of tests, but, you know, hormones is its own huge bucket, which we're going to focus in on. But as I like to say, we can do whatever we want with hormones, but if we don't get the fundamentals of the cell online, which means if we're not helping your fundamental cells put up the best defense--we call that managing oxidative stress--if we don't get a process that we call methylation online and optimized, it doesn't matter what we do with hormones. In fact, if I were to work with a doctor, which would not be you, who were to prescribe hormones for our our midlifers, as I like to call them, and we haven't optimized methylation, then we run somebody into a brick wall. So-- or we can, and we'll get into that. But the bottom line is, regardless of what the symptoms are, because we're that's what we're paying attention to, and obviously my scope of practice is not prescribing, that's, that's yours, Dr. Louder, mine would be to steer someone--to do my work, but to steer someone saying, I really feel that you need to investigate hormone replacement therapy or some kind of support. I cannot send that individual over to a physician who doesn't understand the basics of optimizing cellular function and methylation, and what detoxification is, and how genes will direct or determine that process. So you can see where I'm going to is, I will definitely look at the hormone piece, which we'll get into, but nothing matters if the fundamentals aren't in place, right? So those are the biochemical fundamentals. But the other piece, which is huge, is, what the environmental fundamentals--sleep, stress, trauma, empty nester, or putting kids through college, what have you. So there's we can fix anything, potentially looking at genomics or genes, we I can see the patterns and plug the pieces in, but if your foot is still on the gas pedal and you're not sleeping, or if you're in a bad relationship, or whatever, these environmental pieces, those are the fundamentals that are really a key part of any intake with any individual. So I kind of kicked it back to you a little bit on that one, Mary, because we're going to go deep into the detoxification piece. But--hopefully.
Mary Louder:Yeah, so you know, the third one would also be up your alley, which is nutrition.
Amanda Archibald:Well, yeah, yeah.
Mary Louder:Yeah. So cellular function, environmental, and nutrition.
Amanda Archibald:And nutrition and the genes are what tell us how to optimize the nutrition. I mean, you've got your basics, right? So, but actually, in genomics, there are no basics, because each person's pattern is a little bit different. There are food fundamentals, but how we tweak your food path is absolutely based on how we read your genes, which is brilliant, right? Some people for detoxification, we need to push harder on magnesium or vitamin b6 or what have you. So we remove this "Just do this and you'll be fine," because for some people, estrogen clearance really demands a higher amount of things like folate or B12 or magnesium, because we're reading the genes and what the cofactors are. That's Mary, she's sticking her hand up. Yeah.
Mary Louder:That's exactly me. And so, and, and, and the neat thing about that is, when that's presented to a patient, it removes the guessing game. It removes "well, that seemed like a good idea at the time." And it also removes, "Hey, I heard this really cool thing online by this person," right?
Amanda Archibald:Or on a podcast or whatever. Yeah.
Mary Louder:Exactly, exactly. And so, but to be sure, our podcast tells the truth, right? So.
Amanda Archibald:Exactly we are telling the truth, because we're reading DNA.
Mary Louder:Right, and your story is right there in the DNA.
Amanda Archibald:It is.
Mary Louder:And so I think that that's really important the cellular function, which is the biochemistry and methylation, which we'll talk about, because that's going to come up in one of our fun segments here, in a little bit, the environment, how we sleep, what's happening? What are our relations like? The toxicities therein and trauma that occurs, right? And then foods, nutrition. So if we look at, you know, when we say genomics, it's not just about genetic testing in the traditional sense, like, Do you have a mutation? Are you missing something? Is something been put in, or something extra replicated. And we're not just talking about ancestry reports, either, because that's not exactly what we're doing. We're looking at the function of the genes and the function of the human genome overall, and how we know that applies to biochemistry. This is really the root of clinical medicine at its heart. And when I was in medical school, we didn't exactly have this yet, but we sure--and it is taken a long, slow pathway to catch up, even. I think it's about 40 years for something to sometimes really take hold in medicine, I've heard. And that's a long, long time. And many people are, you know, stuck in that way, waste--way-period or waystation, waiting, you know. And as you mentioned, the detoxification, let's, let's go to detoxification in relationship to menopause and why that that's a key component for a woman to understand before we just start giving a bunch of pills, bunch of supplements or a bunch of prescriptions. Why is that so important?
Amanda Archibald:Because it's the body's waste management system. It has innate intelligence that can be befuddled, sometimes from your genes, that can slow things down or move things out rapidly. But if we don't get rid of the byproducts of living, which is essentially metabolism, pharmaceuticals, or anything from the environment that the physical environment that basically adds like sludge in the body, and your body will work harder and harder to get rid of it, or it will worse still, Mary, it will sequester it in adipose tissues. And then, guess what? You listen to something great, and you say, it's spring, it's time to detox, right? So then you amp whatever the latest protocol is, and it can be very, very good green drinks, by the way, there's some beautiful products, but some people's detoxification systems can get really jammed up. And when we push the latest, greatest product, it can really, actually put people into quite, quite a stressful situation for the way they're built. And genomics allows us to see who's going to get into a quagmire and who can just walk through this. And that includes, you know, menopause too. Some people's genes, hormonally and from a detoxification perspective, have given them no trouble throughout their life, you know. And so you can just turn on the faucet and out drains all the junk and the gunk. But for other people, not so fast. And that's what we can see in DNA, which I think is really powerful.
Mary Louder:Yeah, and that is how, when I got into this, you know, I was presented with a stack of a genomic report that was very much a lot of raw data by someone who had been diagnosed with breast cancer, and they said, I don't want to have a recurrence. You're going to help me figure out how to not have that. I'm like, I have no clue. And as I dug into this, this was way back, like in 2017, and as I dug into that, I began to see the person's story right there in the gene--as it, as it was written. And we could--
Amanda Archibald:100%.
Mary Louder:Yeah, and we could then, what I call reverse and what everybody calls reverse engineer out of there and stay, stay clear of what was going on. So detoxification occurs in the liver and a bit in the intestines. I always say, make sure that the colon is moving really well. You don't want to be constipated and then try and push things or pull things through the liver, because that would just so not be a good idea. That would be--
Amanda Archibald:Exactly. You have to, kind of drain the swamp. You have to remove this stopper in the sink--
Mary Louder:Right.
Amanda Archibald:Drain the swamp, right?
Mary Louder:That's right.
Amanda Archibald:And then you can turn the river--liver on, which is, you know, we're a lot of times, we're doing things in the reverse, and even nutrigenomically, when we're titrating a very targeted information, like polyphenols, which can target very specific genes, we don't do that if there's dysbiosis at play. We don't say that--do that--if you're saying, You know what, when I eat this, I bloat, or I'm having reflux. I'm like, wait a minute here. We're starting right there. You can put everything else back on the shelf, because we have work to do to unstop the sink. Your body is telling you there's a reason. And of course, that can happen during menopause too, which we should talk about, you know, with the vagus nerve a little bit, and what is going on there, and why some women, particularly, really struggle with changes in the digestive tract. And here they are, trying to detoxify, because I've been told you have to do that, but they're all stopped up, and they're like, what happened to me? So we should probably talk about that too, because it's, it's tied in, right? What the--all these pieces?
Mary Louder:Well, let's go there right now. No, let's go right to the Vagus. So what happens in Vagus never stays in the Vagus.
Amanda Archibald:No, it goes all over your body. Sorry, people.
Mary Louder:Exactly. It goes everywhere. It's the vagabond nerve is really what it's meant to be, and that's where it got its name. So let's go there. What are these women experiencing? What are you seeing, and what's the experience? So, what does serotonin do? It puts us in a good mood, right?
Amanda Archibald:What I am seeing Mary, and it's absolutely fascinating. I had a key case with a woman this morning. It It helps us balance mood. It impacts our heart rate, so was just an amazing case. But--when we've all, we all take advantage of serotonin for most of our life. I always say, you know, this is our feel-good balancing hormone, and it doesn't work for everybody. You know, we can see that with aberrations in genes, but when you look at how the body builds serotonin, which it does naturally, but there are some genes that get in the way. One of the kickstarters, a major kickstarters, aside from vitamin D, happens to be estrogen. cardiovascular function, but it also induces peristalsis, right? Yeah. So, so that is really interesting to know. So when we remove that primer on how we produce serotonin, there's a number of things can happen. We can suddenly experience ourselves differently. They may say, I'm not the person I was like two years ago. Some women really feel different. That's what I'm seeing, is that I never used to be like this. It must be menopause. Well, no, it's just a hormonal chain. Or maybe you don't have the nutrient sufficiency, or there's a genetic inability to produce serotonin. So serotonin, we know can--is also impacts our appetite and satiety. It can modulate that. So what is happening? So I'm going to finish one other thing, then go back to that, because I think it's important. So let's say we're losing some of the fuel, or the gas, to make serotonin? Well, serotonin is also upstream from melatonin, so when you, you know, you only half-fill the tank, where do you think some of the sleep challenges come from? And it's not just melatonin, but you may have a reduced ability to naturally produce melatonin, which helps us sleep. So there's this cool part here. We always go off on a tangent. This is so cool that--so we think about weight gain. Sometimes that happens. And there's so many reasons why changes in digestion, potentially. Fluctuating serotonin in itself can impact sleep. But you just heard me say that from serotonin, we can make melatonin. There's some genes involved. Well, melatonin, its job, one of its jobs is actually to keep insulin at bay at night so that the body can go into autophagy so it can help with the cleanup business of what happens overnight, right? There's something brilliant about Chinese medicine that we've known this but never been able to put it together. So melatonin, when it's higher, keeps insulin at bay. When it's lower, insulin can come out to play. And so, we can see when melatonin is reduced, maybe our insulin is kind of pinging all over the place. You don't want that, because guess what wakes you up at night? Low blood sugar. Right? It does. So we can put a CGM on, you'll see it. So all of this is all these pieces coming from serotonin. But the other thing that I discovered teaching clinicians this year, not discovered, you kind of go back and remind yourself in the science--that a lot of people, and we see this with kids too, with ADHD, of all things, sometimes we're treating them for the dopamine pathway, and it's really serotonin. A lot of women will complain of increased craving, particularly carbs. I don't know if you see that, but my, some of my women will, that I see, and they're craving carbs because they're trying to make serotonin. One of the ways you make serotonin is you use the base molecules tryptophan, which you find in animal products. But to get that into the brain, you have to actually sequester carbs. So let's put this together. So, tryptophan is a molecule that crosses into the brain, helps you make serotonin in the brain, it's pretty important that the body does it. The things that get in the way of getting tryptophan into brain can be other proteins, and the way we get rid of them is we eat carbs that forces the body to produce insulin. Insulin will then take those other competitive proteins and shove them over into the muscle so that you can get tryptophan into your brain. So the carbs are the body's way of saying, I need to make serotonin. Please, get that other competitive proteins out of the way so I can get Tryptophan into the brain and make serotonin, and we can all breathe again, you know. So it's, it's pretty complicated science, but every single time I see what's wrong with my cravings, and it has nothing to do with leptin and ghrelin or aberrations in those genes, it's literally the body saying I've got to find homeostasis, I've got to get back to calm. So there's a lot in serotonin.
Mary Louder:So, the majority of serotonin is housed around our gut.
Amanda Archibald:It is, yes, and it's different. Yes.
Mary Louder:Okay, so that's the gut-associated lymphoid tissue that's around the intestines.
Amanda Archibald:Yes.
Mary Louder:It's part of the microbiome, metabolome, the "gut to"--the gut to brain, gut to skin, gut to--
Amanda Archibald:Yes.
Mary Louder:--gut to hormones axis that we always talk about, which is really where the action is. So what you're saying is that, is it the serotonin from the gut that then gets translated up to the brain because of the competing proteins?
Amanda Archibald:So what it is, and there's two genes, we look
at:TPH1 and TPH2, tryptophan hydroxylase one and two. And forgive me for not remember--not checking my science right before I jumped on here, but one of them targets tryptophan into the brain. So that's the neurotransmitter, the mood modulator, right? And I think it's TPH2, and don't quote me, you put it in the show notes--
Amanda Archibald:--it is what is produced by bacteria in the
Mary Louder:Yeah. gut that acts as the hormone, right? That then targets the vagus nerve, which will then release acetylcholine, and bam, then we have the benefit of the vagus nerve being fired, one of the many benefits. So, so one is a neurotransmitter. One form of serotonin, produced in the brain that I just described, acts in the brain, and the other one from the gut, acts systemically in the periphery and targets the vagus nerve. Okay. And different genes, right? So we have to read them, and a lot of times I've seen the issue is with the gene in the gut, not in the brain, so we have to clinically, really think about that. How we going to help this individual? Is the issue, is it coming from the brain, or the gut, or both? Yeah. Okay.
Amanda Archibald:Different genes.
Mary Louder:Yes, yes. Different genes, different functions. Now--and to be sure, when we look at these genes, they function by either turning on higher, go higher, or turn off.
Amanda Archibald:Yes.
Mary Louder:And so then there's multiple factors how they even function.
Amanda Archibald:Yes.
Mary Louder:This is not so one of the things, this is not an easy topic. This is not easy for clinicians to figure out. This is not easy for physicians to figure out, practitioners to figure out. Now I'm going to say something here, that--it could be controversial, but I don't believe it is. In general, people are down on what they're not up on.
Amanda Archibald:Mm, hmm, yeah, that's true. I'm just thinking about serotonin, yeah?
Mary Louder:And if we think of opinions, clinical insights, ways to practice, how to care for patients, when a when a patient walks in to talk to their physician, clinician, provider, and says, Hey, I'm concerned about this. I'd like to do genetic, genomic testing. If the physician, provider, practitioner, is not up on this, they're going to be down on it.
Amanda Archibald:Yeah, bingo, because it's not easy.
Mary Louder:Yeah. And so they're going to hear answers like, well, that doesn't matter. You just take this one size fits all. No, it doesn't matter how your body detoxifies, which occurs in the liver, small intestine, large intestine, and kidneys and lymphs. So here, you know, all of a sudden we're expanding, right, right? But here this very clear, listeners, it does matter. This does matter. How you remove toxins from your body determines the keys to longevity.
Amanda Archibald:100%.
Mary Louder:Yep, and it is important. It is understandable. Your story, and you can become the hero of your own story by understanding that, and so it's finding the people who know how to do this. So don't give up. You may have to change who you're seeing, who you're working with, but don't give up. Keep trying to figure it out. So I think that that's just really, really important. So let's jump back into the gut, because this is where things become--
Amanda Archibald:Went to the brain, we need to go back to the gut.
Mary Louder:Yeah, yeah. We just left the brain. We're going back to the gut, which is really the second brain, but there you go, right that Yeah. It is. It is. Now there's a beautiful, but often overlooked concept called the estrobolome. Have you heard of that one?
Amanda Archibald:I have.
Mary Louder:Yeah.
Amanda Archibald:More your world than mine, but 100%. Because we can see that.
Mary Louder:Yes. And so that's the collection of the gut bacteria that help metabolize estrogen. Mm, hmm. And if that system is imbalanced, and that's going to probably have some influence with our tryptophan and serotonin, whether it's due to antibiotics, stress, poor diet, other factors, vagal nerve influences, right? Our ability to eliminate the use of estrogen is compromised. So our detoxification is compromised.
Amanda Archibald:Yeah, because you get caught in a constant recycling circuit.
Mary Louder:Yes.
Amanda Archibald:Yes.
Mary Louder:And we see that in partly in when we do a Dutch test, and we see that in phase one, when we've got literally pie sitting there. It's looks like a pie structure we look at as a graphic, and the blue section is enlarged, and that's that recycling aberrant estrogens. And that goes down through one of the Phase One detoxification, which is strongly influenced, pushed back on, by the metabolome, and the way through that is changing diet, fixing the gut, healing the gut, healing the gaps in the gut, which we call leaky gut, which is kind of a sloppy term, but it sure makes the picture look right. And when we begin that work there, before we even look at replacing hormones, we can then get that the, as I call it, the prompt, the pump primed, the patient ready to receive hormones, where they can really begin to work for them on their behalf.
Amanda Archibald:Exactly.
Mary Louder:And I find when I do that, I don't have to prescribe high doses. I can use topical versus oral. I can use--
Amanda Archibald:Oh, yeah.
Mary Louder:I can use things that don't have a huge pressure on the the liver. And I can use things that, when we use small amounts, we get the we get the benefits of estrogen. And one of the things I love about estrogen helping women, and why it's so important for us to use estrogen long term in women, is heart health. It's the number one killer of women.
Amanda Archibald:And you can see it right there.
Mary Louder:Yep. And the blood vessels, the lining of the blood vessels, work and function like a hormone, the glycocalyx. It's a long fancy word for saying hormones influence the lining of my blood vessels, and it's--
Amanda Archibald:Why would you not make that available for women who are living longer and decaying from the inside out, if they don't have the opportunity to have this conversation with their physician?
Mary Louder:I think it's a lack of knowledge. I think, I honestly think it's a lack of knowledge, but I also go one step further, and I think it's a lack of curiosity.
Amanda Archibald:That's interesting. Yeah, it's safer to stay in your space than to go the extra mile. I mean, I can't imagine practicing without genomics, because it's your blueprint of every single person who walks in the door, right? And we're able to read it to--it helps us prompt questions. So, you know, we're talking about hormones. So a lot of times, I can look at the structure the genes, or how they--the patterns that appear to be coming from the genes, and ask questions about so when you were 22, how was your periods, you know? Or is there a history of endometriosis or PCOS in your family, right? Or heavy menstruation? Now, it's not, I can't fix that, but I can certainly let that individual know you need to have this conversation with your provider. I mean, it's that clear, and usually we're right on.
Mary Louder:Yes, and I can point to spots in my life cycle when things changed. And I can delineate exactly what happened before and after that.
Amanda Archibald:Yeah.
Mary Louder:And how my health changed as well, and the way my genes are. Thank you, Mom, thank you, Dad, that's a therapy session. Honor thy parents. Yeah, thanks, yeah. I'll honor you by going to therapy.
Amanda Archibald:Um, but you know you talking about how important estrogen, I mean, and maybe have a conversation that there are some individuals that you know you have to use, maybe biomimicry or something else because of their medical history, that this may not be an option. But what I've seen in my own life, as you know this, Mary, because you saw my medical records way back when, is when I was moved. I was in Boulder. For a number of years, I moved to part of the Midwest, which not where you are, and I couldn't get my hormone replacement therapy up for two and a half years. So physicians were going off the women's--whatever that long, the Women's Health Study, and also ACOG guidelines, and they said no, no, no. When I got back to Colorado, I had lost 10% of the bone mineral density in my lumbar spine. Now we've been I managed to rebuild that, which, you know, by 25% in two years. And it's not just that, from estrogen, but estrogen is such a critical signaling molecule in the bones, for osteoblasts to rebuild and prevent the remodeling of bone, but also to the cardiovascular piece that you mentioned, as soon as I was put back on estrogen. And I'm active, you know how I eat and I'm active, cyclist, and all the things, every day, my LDL and my APO B, which are markers we look at, just plummeted. I mean, they went, I mean, how could my LDL be 141, it was unheard of, bam. You know, within six months, no three months, because we retested, everything went back to normal limits because estrogen sensitizes the LDL receptor. So it helps us clear, you know, what can be very sludgy for the liver, and anything that's sludgy for the liver is definitely injurious to the vasculature, to your point. So.
Mary Louder:And it's interesting, and I don't know if you heard this, but I and this is, we won't tangential down here, but I want to just put this out there for you to think about. I've seen studies where we're finding insulin receptors on bone Bone is--
Amanda Archibald:Yes.
Mary Louder:Influenced by insulin, and so looking at the insulin sensitivity, another avenue for sensitizing insulin receptors genomically can also be through nutrigenomics, even through the GLP-1 medicines, I think we're going to see difference in bone density, and we're going to see an increase in bone density in the women who are on those medications, because we're sensitizing insulin receptors again.
Amanda Archibald:Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Big.
Mary Louder:Yeah.
Amanda Archibald:And yeah, and the TCF7L2 gene is directly impact--implicated with a GLP-1 activation, which I find amazing.
Mary Louder:Yes.
Amanda Archibald:So that would be that insulin-blood glucose connection. We geeked out there.
Mary Louder:Yeah, we did. Extra credit. Who wants extra credit?
Amanda Archibald:Sorry.
Mary Louder:All right. Well, we're going to take a quick commercial break here, and we'll be right back with our next segments coming into finishing on the gut, the genes and the hormones that, that connection. Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back. Hi. Dr, Louder here. This podcast is brought to you by mycoVIM. It is my functional mushroom brand that I've developed. And the power of the functional mushrooms is that each formula we have five different formulas, they play a unique role in your health. Reishi, which calms and supports restorative sleep and energy. Lion's Mane, which sharpens focus and nourishes the brain. Cordyceps, which boosts energy and stamina. Turkey Tail, which strengthens immunity and gut health. And Chaga, which is a powerful antioxidant protection. Rooted in science, I went to the literature and figured out what doses are important, what blends and what mushrooms. Crafted for balance, so they work together, and made for life--they're easy to use and take, gentle on the body, but you do feel their effects. So you basically put the tincture on a spoon and down the hatch. Doesn't have to sit in your mouth. It's not homeopathic. It's literally a liquid formula of functional mushrooms. Rooted in science, balanced for life, mycoVIM, it can be a game changer to help you in your steps towards wellness. Okay, and welcome back to our metabolome, estrobolome, metabolism, menopausal genomic podcast. That was like a mouthful. And what I want to go into, Amanda, is your specialty in nutrigenomics. What does that mean? What does that? How does that apply to a patient, a client? How does that--what, what do we need to know about this that is so important--because your work is vital. It's revolutionary. It's you've had work in hospitals and medical systems across the world, and that's connecting with chefs and food and different things. But what does that really mean? Share with us some of your journey about your specialization in this world.
Amanda Archibald:Yeah, so nutrigenomics is really how we can look at how a gene will respond to very targeted nutrient information, or more clearly, we will use things like bioactives or polyphenols in foods. What is that? Or in substances. So these bioactives or polyphenols. Example would be apigenin, which you find in parsley, or actually in chamomile, also in honey, believe it or not--no, chrysin is in honey and chamomile. Chrysin. So honey is a natural sweetener in the Mediterranean. Interesting, isn't it?
Mary Louder:Yeah.
Amanda Archibald:But we're using information from food that is non-nutritive, and we fire that at genes through a prescription, through a nutrition prescription, and what we're actually doing is we're getting these genes to get up and do their job. So if they're slackers, we can fire them up. We're also trained to know that some genes are targeted by what we call a transcription factor. So it's a master switch in the body, and depending on what we fire at that switch, it's like shrapnel. We can hit a whole bunch of other genes to do their work. So for example, when we're looking at estrogen or sex hormone detoxification, because they all pile into, to estrogen right? In the end, estrogen is like, like in front of the door, but everything file piles in there, all the way through the pathways. So, a key to detoxifying estrogen, when we get into the second part are, this genes we'll we'll name them, just GSTM1 or GSTP1, mnsod comped, right? What else is in there? There's a whole host of genes.
Mary Louder:MTHFR, and some--
Amanda Archibald:Oh, MTHFR, yes. So, three of the four genes we just mentioned, if there's slackers or if they're sludgy, I can fire sulforaphane. And when I say fire, I can build that in as via food, but oftentimes, at our work is it's a much higher concentration, and we know that will kind of open up these genes to do their jobs. So instead of us saying, take the supplement, which is a full of a bunch of stuff we may or may not need and can be expensive, you know, we're very, very strategic, because you can get a lot of return on ingestion, as I say, with very little information from food. So we're working with these polyphenols. They're at minimal concentrations, but you have maximum benefit. So nutrigenomics is the field of understanding not only how genes function, but how we can coax them, you know, through the environment, which includes nutrients, food and, you know, the emotional environment, we can coax genes to do their job. And that's what's brilliant. When we're looking at estrogen or sex hormone detoxification, depending on your patterns, we know how hard we can push with certain information and how hard we cannot, and that's the brilliant specialty of nutrigenomics. And yeah. That's that's the work I've been doing in hospitals and training chefs and course training clinicians around the world as well.
Mary Louder:And so what that looks like to the to the patient, to the recipient, is a certain type of food on your plate.
Amanda Archibald:Mm-hmm.
Mary Louder:Right.
Amanda Archibald:Is, yeah, it's specific food sometimes, as I say, the gears are a little rusty in the body. And so we'll add in a higher level of a supplementation. Very strategic supplementation. Could be just using Omega-3. It can be a high polyphenol olive oil, which is what I often use. Can be a pomegranate extract. And we use these, almost like condiments that we sprinkle onto the plate we built for you to push the body's teeth, you know, to get the gears of your biochemistry to grind together once that, once they're oiled and they work, you're good. You know, we streamlined you, and you can go back to food with a little bit of additional support. But if you're taking suitcases full of supplements, then that defies physiological logic and it doesn't align with your genes. That's called guesswork versus precision work, which is what we do with nutrigenomics.
Mary Louder:Yeah. So, you know the parts of the food, it's not going to be the carbohydrate, protein, fat, that's the macronutrient we're looking at micro, and/or the other components that are within the, the, I guess it would be within the body of the food.
Amanda Archibald:Yes.
Mary Louder:Signals, the genes.
Amanda Archibald:Yeah, the resident molecules in food. So we think about what make, what makes sweet potatoes orange, maybe beta carotene. That's an example of a molecule that we might use. But yeah, these molecules we're using are often like invisible molecules. They're part of the makeup of it. They'll be in plants, so pretty much resident only in plant food versus animal.
Mary Louder:And herbs. I would--
Amanda Archibald:And yeah, by plants, yeah, yeah. Herbs are the most herbs and spices are the most nutrient dense foods on the planet, covering everything you know, proteins--some with fats, right? Yeah, coarse fats, carbohydrates, but these polyphenols and even like B vitamins, it's incredible when you look at herbs and spices under a microscope, nutritional microscope, they are just this truly abundant source of every nutrient you could possibly need. So that's why Indian cuisine is amazing. Different forms of African cuisine, they're just so resplendent in natural medicine.
Mary Louder:That's fascinating, because that is some of the areas where we have poverty, some of the areas where we have food challenges.
Amanda Archibald:Oh, yeah.
Mary Louder:And it's got some of the densest nutrients in the spices and foods that are present on those continents. So the the irony there is not lost on me. That's kind of interesting.
Amanda Archibald:It is. I mean, if you, you think of the fundamentals of cuisine, of Indian or Thai cuisine, I mean, they start with making a blend of something, right? I mean, every Thai Kitchen has their mortar and pestle and maybe not called that, but that's how they start that cuisine is crushing and grinding or macerating to marinade, right? What's ours? Put it in the fryer.
Mary Louder:Yeah. Air fryer, it's on the counter. Yeah, right, right. Well, it's interesting, because as spring is coming around, I have this great I've been filling up with Greek herbs, which is interesting. And I would just like to report that my thyme resurrected itself in the garden. I'm taking that as a metaphor. And it came back around. And I'm like, I'm ready to use it. It's just robust and beautiful this early in the season. And there's so many things that I put that in that I'm going to add--
Amanda Archibald:Oh yeah, you know, it's interesting when you look at the Mediterranean herbs, you know, because a lot of my work is researching which is the best of the best, you know, which is the robust, sig--most robust signaling herbs that we know about. And you think about Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme plus oregano, are just incredible resident talkers, internal talkers to your genes. I mean, they, they, they're gene whisperers. And just like an interesting fact, if you're going to choose oregano, the Mexican oregano, which is different from the Greek and Mediterranean, is, has a much louder voice. It's a much louder gene whisperer than the beautiful Italian or Greek.
Mary Louder:That's interesting.
Amanda Archibald:Oregano, yeah, it's interesting. And we're just measuring the polyphenol volume, you know, in these herbs. So it doesn't mean to say you don't buy Italian, I buy Italian oregano all the time. So.
Mary Louder:Yeah, well, I have both of my covered Italian and Mexican oregano, yeah. And interestingly, saying that when I use Mexican oregano, I actually feel really good. I put it in a lot of soups and stews.
Amanda Archibald:And it's a different flavor too. It's a much yeah, brighter flavor, louder, right from a culinary perspective. So yes.
Mary Louder:And it actually resonates very well. I mean, it just feels like a very good spice. So--
Amanda Archibald:Isn't that amazing.
Mary Louder:Yeah, that's really, really fun. Okay, now we're going to go on to my, our favorite segment here, called gadgets, gimmicks and gotchas. Now, a gadget is something that's useful. A gimmick is, meh, and the gotcha is, like, whoa, stay away. So that's really what this segment's about. And we're going to pick on genomic testing, okay? And I'm going to pick one company. Never like picky about them, but there's a company, if we use a company that has a blueprint report with it, and it's got really good, curated information and calling it a gadget, if we look at a genetic test, the keys that we would want knowing as a consumer is that when you get that report, when you get a genomic report, when you have testing done, there's things that provide multiple genes, right? It's not one gene or one SNP, as we call it, make a genomic mishap in a person's life. It's multiple genes working together across the spectrum within the body. So when you get a genomic test, and there's a few companies out there, you've got to make sure that they're looking at polygenomic resources, polygenomic reporting, polygenomic understanding of explanations. So that's going to be the gadget that's very useful.
Amanda Archibald:And I would say with that, too, the reality is that. These companies, you would not really be able to buy these reports yourself. They should come from your provider. Or if you get this report and you can't read it, it's usually it's a pretty good report, because, you know, there's a reason that most reports are not sold direct to the public, because they can be very misleading, or you can, you can come away with completely the wrong understanding and totally spend a bunch of money on supplements or foods that don't work with your unique genome. So the gadget is polygenic, I agree, and usually obtained through your provider who's trained, who you've asked if they're trained, too.
Mary Louder:Exactly. And so, right, so the gimmick then in the middle is sitting there in those one gene tests, MTHFR.
Amanda Archibald:Oh yeah, I call them line item tests.
Mary Louder:Yes, I've got the MTHFR and I'm gonna die. And I'm always like, Yeah, well, you're gonna die, and you're gonna die with it, not from it. Right.
Amanda Archibald:From it. And by the way, it has the couple of Right?
Mary Louder:Yeah, no. siblings. So glad you just found out about one of them. You know,
Amanda Archibald:Your body doesn't work like that. it's like, I'm sorry to tell you, I also have the MTHFR, so,
Mary Louder:Exactly so. And then the gotcha, as you said, yeah, I agree with you. A gimmick is a report where it reads like a ledger, like an accounting ledger, yeah, right. are the things that are not driven by a provider. They're Here's the chain, here's your result. Take this. in, they're open to everyone accessing. You're going to get something, and then they're going to want to probably access your ancestors or other people along with it, right? So know before you test, Know Before You Go, between the gadget, the gimmick and the gotcha on those and definitely find a physician, provider, practitioner, who knows what they're doing. And some of these companies also have referrals for providers, and some of the companies also--because then those folks have met a minimum standard of understanding and education and things like that. So I think that that's just really important.
Amanda Archibald:And I think I want to add to that too, that for your listeners, that if you are, let's say your physician or provider is offering testing, ask them how long they were, been trained.
Mary Louder:Yeah.
Amanda Archibald:This, our training, realistically, is 18 to 24 months. I mean, maybe it's 12 months of hardcore didactic, but it's the practice and the exposure and the mentoring, the coaching. This is, this is not I went away for a weekend and took a course, or I went to such and such university offered by a lab. That doesn't count. It's, it's hard work, and you'll see, because when you see a provider who does work in genomics, you should be able to walk out of that session saying that person really understands me, and I now understand my body. The dots are connected, and I'm okay. You know, I'm--this provider knows what they're doing, and which is critical.
Mary Louder:It is. And to the point of these tests, the genomic tests, they don't diagnose.
Amanda Archibald:No.
Mary Louder:Not diagnostic.
Amanda Archibald:No.
Mary Louder:I had someone recently want to become a patient in my practice. And everybody who comes into my practice, 100% gets a genomic test, so I don't have to guess anymore, right? Because a lot of times folks that come to see me have been around the block. They've seen everybody, still have things going on, and I don't want to guess anymore, either.
Amanda Archibald:No.
Mary Louder:So I that's how I do my work, and it's not for everybody. Not everybody wants to do that, and I, that's fine. It's just an offering in how I practice. The person came back and said, well, their insurance company said that if you did a genomic test, we're going to cancel your insurance. Well, number one, I'm not sure that that exact--that conversation exactly occurred. Couldn't I can't qualify that, but that's illegal in all 50 states. This even say that. So that doesn't happen. Can't happen. This data is encrypted. It's kept behind multiple walls. It's kept, you know, way far away. We don't have to even include it in your medical record. There's lots of ways that it's literally protected, and privacy is one of the biggest things with this.
Amanda Archibald:And the other thing is, like you said, it's not diagnostic or predictive, what it does is it helps us inform the patterns of your body so we know how to generate the care plan and the support your unique biome and genome needs. So, that's, you know, genomic testing versus genetic, right, which is a single gene and how that may impact health outcome or a condition. We're looking at the whole puzzle, and each of the genes that we're looking at is responsive to lifestyle andintervention. So that's what's magical, What's brilliant about it.
Mary Louder:Exactly. So not diagnostics to have privacy is involved, you know. And then from there, I use that to inform me what tests I need.
Amanda Archibald:Yeah.
Mary Louder:Right. And the tests show the real life, real time, where the patient's at in.
Amanda Archibald:Exactly.
Mary Louder:In addition to their history, physical examination and known medical history. So it's a very complex thing, how we put this together. So, you know, wrapping up and looking back at this full circle. So whether you're in your 20s, 30s, or already going some around the perimenopausal waves and the whoopty-whoops, it's really important to be empowered to know what's going on and your genes are going to inform you of the story. Not written in stone, certainly in--being able to be influenced and written really, in our choices, in our informed consent and the DNA. While you know it's, is it our destiny? No, no, that's our destiny. It's our starting point. It's our interpretation point. It's our touchstone. It's our coming back to in terms of who we are. So how we eat, move, rest, all those lifestyle things can be influenced by and through our genes. So what you know, if you were to just be put on the spot here, three takeaways, Amanda, about how we want to look at genomics reflected into menopause. You know, that type of thing, what are, what's the most important things? Three most important things you would ever tell someone just coming and say, Why would I want a genomic test? What do I need to know?
Amanda Archibald:Because--so is that the question. Why would I want a genomic test specifically? And to me, I think I would want to, I think it's a human right, and that it before I die, I would like to see every person have the opportunity to have that blueprint at home or in front of their medical record, because it allows every person who touches your health, your life, to reference how you're built. You know, you, you don't change. Your genes don't change. I mean, we can turn them on, off, manipulate them, but that is the story of you that you carry, and it can guide care for the rest of your life, all the way from pharmacogenomics to genomics. You know, everything tells the story of you, and it nu--that's number one. Number two, it removes a guesswork out of why you may react to something, why you're experiencing something, and number three, it'll save you an awful lot of money regardless of what life stage you're in, because you won't be taking wheelbarrows of supplements or foods that actually, are not going to speak the same language of the intelligence of your body, so, you know. And if you're going to look at a fourth for menopause, which, as you said, we didn't talk so, so much about it, but you know, it's reflection as you move through your life stage. Some people may actually be in menopause in their mid 30s, just as a function of how their genes are a little fudgy or smudgy or what have you, or you've been experiencing poor sex hormone detoxification, you know, being able to see that earlier on in somebody's life. We're able to guide you or optimize your body so you don't end up, you know, pinging or feeling miserable. Or, why do I feel this way? And how, how come somebody else just sails through it, but I'm just stuck in this, like, vicious cycle, and no one's helping me.
Mary Louder:Yeah.
Amanda Archibald:Yeah.
Mary Louder:yeah. We didn't get into particular cases which, you know, I have, I can't count how many cases, I would say, can't count how many cases of women I've gotten pregnant, or they've--I mean, what I mean is! We've sorted out their genes. We've sorted out what was, you know, where they literally were at fertility clinics.
Amanda Archibald:Oh, that's a whole other topic. Yes.
Mary Louder:And we were able through, and they were, you know, kind of, you know, menopausal like, ish, you know, how many issues can we put on there? And the cases where, when we understand and look at their genes and then reflect testing upon that, we're able to rewrite the story more in line with really, what's there. And what--
Amanda Archibald:Yeah, I mean, that's a great point, that genes can help redirect the story. You can see where the traffic jams are in the body, or where you know where you need, like, a detour, right? And that's what I mean by saving a whole bunch of money on it, in testing, because genes will guide us to what may be the story we're hearing that and symptoms in the story, but we can also validate it in the testing, instead of like, I'm sure some of your listeners have gone through gobs of testing, it costs a lot of money to make a mistake and not get the right information.
Mary Louder:Yes.
Amanda Archibald:Genomics allows us to get around that.
Mary Louder:Yes. How can people find you if they want more information to look at your work, see what you're doing, see how it might apply for them. What's the best way for them to--
Amanda Archibald:See if they want to come to Europe on my next retreat? Yeah, we're doing DNA-guided retreats in Europe. So which is kind of neat. Genomic kitchen. That's my--Amanda Archibald, RG, you'll kind of, I'll pop up on Google or whatever, but genomickitchen.com, that's me.
Mary Louder:Great. Well, Amanda, this has been a rich conversation. It's been a long time coming. We're going to have to do again, maybe not wait so long this next time and, and I appreciate all your time and expertise and how you've walked us through this and joined me in conversation with this, with this great topic. So thanks very much.
Amanda Archibald:Thank you for having me again.
Mary Louder:Yeah, you're very, very welcome.
Amanda Archibald:Thanks.
Mary Louder:All right, folks, thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you in our next episode.
